{"id":21897,"date":"2026-05-09T14:22:38","date_gmt":"2026-05-09T21:22:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/?p=21897"},"modified":"2026-05-09T15:59:29","modified_gmt":"2026-05-09T22:59:29","slug":"making-sourdough","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/2026\/05\/09\/making-sourdough\/","title":{"rendered":"Making sourdough"},"content":{"rendered":"\r\n<p>My sourdough-making journey started with a bread machine.<\/p>\r\n<p>(I should note that I\u2019ve never been good at cooking, and I never baked anything on my own before 2025.)<\/p>\r\n<p>A year or so ago, I was sad that my favorite bread (Oroweat\u2019s Honey Wheat Berry) had been discontinued a couple years earlier, and I wasn\u2019t loving most of the other bread options available to me, and what with one thing and another I bought a Zojirushi Virtuoso bread machine.<\/p>\r\n<p>And it turned out that the whole wheat bread that that machine makes is very tasty. So I\u2019ve been making wheat bread every couple of weeks with it.<\/p>\r\n<p>Sometime around August, I noticed that the bread machine\u2019s recipe book also included a sourdough recipe (starting from scratch, making your own sourdough starter in the machine), and I got curious and tried it out. Sadly, I ended up with not-very-sour and oddly shaped bread that smelled strongly of apple cider vinegar. It wasn\u2019t inedible, but it also wasn\u2019t at all what I was looking for.<\/p>\r\n<p>But I decided to try some other options before giving up. (I think various friends may have advised me at this point.) My brother gave me some sourdough starter, and I found two bread-machine-sourdough recipes online, and I figured I might as well try it.<\/p>\r\n<p>(I also read a bunch of articles and forum posts about sourdough, which mostly led me to the impression that many people have very strong opinions about various things about sourdough. And the impression that sourdough is more an art than a science.)<\/p>\r\n<p>(It took me a bunch of articles and forum posts, and a bit of experimentation on my own, to find some answers to some very basic questions. For example, there are lots of mentions of starter doubling in size, but it wasn\u2019t until I weighed it myself that I understood for sure that it was doubling in volume but not in weight. \u201cIf you thought it doubled in weight, where did you think the extra mass came from?\u201d asked a more experienced friend, reasonably. I dunno, I didn\u2019t really think it through, it just felt to me like the articles I was reading were ambiguously phrased, and might have been talking about doubling in weight.)<\/p>\r\n<figure id=\"attachment_21901\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignright\" style=\"width: 310px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/1-flat.jpeg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/1-flat-300x225.jpeg\" alt=\"Short\/flat bread-machine sourdough loaf.\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21901\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Short\/flat bread-machine sourdough loaf.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<p>Anyway, so I tried making sourdough in the bread machine. My general impression was that most people who make sourdough felt that it was wicked (and\/or impossible) to try to automate such a messy human endeavor as making sourdough, but both of the recipes that I found said that it worked well.<\/p>\r\n<p>And when I tried them, I found that they \u2026 worked okay?<\/p>\r\n<p>One was <a href=\"https:\/\/www.kingarthurbaking.com\/recipes\/bread-machine-sourdough-bread-recipe\">from the King Arthur Flour website<\/a>, the other was <a href=\"https:\/\/www.reddit.com\/r\/Sourdough\/comments\/1557si7\/psa_you_can_use_a_bread_machine_to_make_sourdough\/\">from Reddit<\/a>. I tried the King Arthur one first, then tried the Reddit one half a dozen times, then the King Arthur one again. (All this was spread out over several months.)<\/p>\r\n<figure id=\"attachment_21902\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"width: 235px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/2-machine.jpeg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/2-machine-225x300.jpeg\" alt=\"Bread-machine sourdough with quasi-crust.\" width=\"225\" height=\"300\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21902\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Bread-machine sourdough with quasi-crust.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<p>In general, the results I obtained for both recipes tended to be too damp, too dense, not sour enough, and with an odd uncrustlike crust. And they would rise in the bread machine but then at some point they tended to collapse, leaving the top of the final loaf kind of flat instead of domed, and sometimes leaving the loaf quite short in height.<\/p>\r\n<p>I tried a bunch of variations and adjustments, and I took a lot of notes. Over time, the results got somewhat better, but they were never quite what I was hoping for.<\/p>\r\n<p>And despite the uniformity of the bread-machine process, it felt like there continued to be a lot of variables that I didn\u2019t understand. For example, I suspect that the air temperature in my kitchen has a big effect on how fast the starter grows during the part where I feed it and wait for it to be active before putting it in the machine\u2014when I first got the starter, the kitchen stayed well above 70\u00b0F overnight, and I would feed the starter at night and it would quadruple in volume by morning; whereas as the weather got colder, the kitchen usually dropped to 65\u00b0 overnight, and the starter grew much more slowly overnight. (I didn\u2019t know until much later that my oven has a Proofing setting. I still haven\u2019t used that.)<\/p>\r\n<figure id=\"attachment_21903\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignright\" style=\"width: 310px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/3-machine.jpeg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/3-machine-300x225.jpeg\" alt=\"More quasi-crust.\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21903\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">More quasi-crust.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<p>I also found articles talking about the differences in the kinds of sourness produced by various balances between yeast and bacteria\u2014a difference, said one source, between acetic acid sourness (like vinegar) and lactic acid sourness (like yoghurt)\u2014and about how to achieve more of either of those kinds of sourness. But I wasn\u2019t sure which of those I liked better or which I was aiming for.<\/p>\r\n<p>So there were many variables, and mysterious-to-me processes that I don\u2019t have a lot of control over, and I had no clear sense of what the range of possible outcomes was nor even what my goals were.<\/p>\r\n<p>So at some point a couple months ago, I told KTO about all this, and she made an excellent suggestion:<\/p>\r\n<p>She would walk me through making sourdough the traditional way, in an oven, and that would give me more experience and a better understanding of what was going on, which I could then apply to improving the bread-machine process.<\/p>\r\n<p>I hadn\u2019t wanted to make oven sourdough before then because I think of bread-making as a complicated and difficult process. (I think this perception is partly based on childhood memories of straining flour and endless kneading.) And I felt like people talk about sourdough in particular as something that you have to make a whole lot of in order to do it at all well. And more generally, I find most cooking to be a little bit anxiety-provoking. A big advantage of the bread machine for me is that I can just dump ingredients into the machine and it does all the complicated and scary parts for me.<\/p>\r\n<p>But having an experienced cook guide me through the process made it feel more doable, and I reminded myself of the paradigm that my therapist has been trying to get me to adopt more often: approach new things with curiosity, and think of them as experiments so I don\u2019t get swamped with Must Do Everything Correctly So It Comes Out Perfectly anxiety.<\/p>\r\n<p>So KTO and I talked about what equipment I would need. I don\u2019t have a Dutch oven, nor a banneton\/proofing basket, and I was hesitant about spending a bunch of money on those things if I was only going to be doing this process once. But KTO told me I could get by without them, and suggested alternatives. And I did buy a nice big Pyrex bowl that I could use for mixing and such.<\/p>\r\n<p>And then we talked through a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.farmhouseonboone.com\/beginners-sourdough-bread-recipe\/\">no-knead beginner-sourdough recipe<\/a> I found online, and she answered a bunch of my questions.<\/p>\r\n<p>And then I tried the recipe.<\/p>\r\n<p>Remarkably, almost everything went smoothly. In accordance with the recipe, I fed my sourdough starter and let it sit overnight, then did a few rounds of stretch-and-fold, then let it sit for a while longer, then shaped it and put it on a floured tea towel in a colander in the fridge overnight. (The colander was a last-minute substitution\u2014I had planned to do the refrigerated step in the Pyrex bowl, but I was poking around online for info about floured tea towels, and saw a recommendation to use a colander (if you don\u2019t have a banneton) to improve airflow, so I tried it.) And by the next morning, after the dough had been in the fridge for about 15 hours, everything seemed ready for the baking process!<\/p>\r\n<p>So I put a half-sheet tray filled with water on the lower rack of my oven (to produce steam, because I don\u2019t have a Dutch oven), and preheated the oven to 500\u00b0F.<\/p>\r\n<p>When the oven reached 500, I put the loaf on another (parchment-paper-lined) baking tray, and scored the top, and put it on the top rack of the oven for 20 minutes.<\/p>\r\n<p>At the end of 20 minutes, the recipe said to turn down the heat. So I went to do that\u2014<\/p>\r\n<p>\u2014and discovered that the current oven temperature was 250\u00b0.<\/p>\r\n<p>Somehow, the oven had finished its preheating cycle and then turned itself off, probably before I put the loaf in. And I hadn\u2019t noticed that it had turned itself off, and so the loaf had been cooking at an ever-decreasing temperature for the past 20 minutes.<\/p>\r\n<p>KTO advised me on what to do to try to fix the problem (and what not to do). But it turned out that I had also made another mistake: I had put the top rack of the oven too high in the oven.<\/p>\r\n<p>So by the time I took the bread out of the oven, although the sides and bottom were a lovely medium brown, the top was pretty thoroughly burned.<\/p><figure id=\"attachment_21904\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"width: 235px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/4-burned-sliced.jpeg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/4-burned-sliced-225x300.jpeg\" alt=\"Burned top cut off; interior looks good.\" width=\"225\" height=\"300\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21904\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Burned top cut off; interior looks good.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<p>I was disappointed and sad, but I figured it had been an experiment, and it had been too much to hope that everything would go well my first try.<\/p>\r\n<p>So (after I let the bread sit on a rack to cool down for a while) I cut off the burned top and tasted the non-burned part\u2014<\/p>\r\n<p>\u2014and it was delicious. A nice texture, a nice solid-but-not-too-crunchy-for-my-tastes crust (on the sides and bottom), and a just about perfect-for-my-tastes sour flavor.<\/p>\r\n<p>(I kinda suspected that part of why this version was much sourer than the bread-machine attempts was that this version sat in the fridge for 12+ hours just before baking, giving it a longer time to slowly develop flavor. But that can\u2019t be all of it, because the next couple attempts weren\u2019t as sour; see below.)<\/p>\r\n<p>Kam and I ate most of the rest of the unburned parts of that loaf pretty quickly.<\/p>\r\n<p>So then I wanted to try again!<\/p>\r\n<p>At this stage, I felt like there were kind of three downsides to all this:<\/p>\r\n<figure id=\"attachment_21905\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignright\" style=\"width: 235px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/5-scorched.jpeg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/5-scorched-225x300.jpeg\" alt=\"Scorched top.\" width=\"225\" height=\"300\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21905\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">2nd try: Scorched top.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<ol>\r\n  <li>I prefer the rectangular-cross-section sandwich-bread shape to round loaves. (I\u2019m told that there may be a way to make oven-baked sourdough in a loaf pan.)<\/li>\r\n  <li>This was <em>so<\/em> much tastier than the bread-machine versions that I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any point to my going back to trying to improve the bread-machine versions. I mean, I could take the lessons I\u2019ve learned from this and try to apply them to adapting the bread-machine recipes\u2014or I could just make the oven-baked version again.<\/li>\r\n  <li>The non-burned parts of the result here were pretty close to the quite-good sourdough that I buy in the grocery store (made by an area bakery). So it seemed like I had to decide: would I rather go back to just buying it from the store, or would I rather keep making it myself? There are advantages to both, but certainly the store-bought version is easier.<\/li>\r\n<\/ol>\r\n<p>Anyway, a week after that first time, I tried again. This time, everything went smoothly again, and I made sure the oven was still at 500 when I put the loaf in. And 20 minutes later, the top wasn\u2019t quite burned but it was kinda scorched.<\/p>\r\n<p>That loaf, too, was tasty, aside from the burned-ish parts. But it wasn\u2019t as sour as the first loaf had been, even though it had been in the fridge for a comparably long time. On the plus side, the way that I had shaped it had accidentally left it kind of squared-off instead of entirely circular, which made for reasonably good slice shapes for sandwiches.<\/p>\r\n<figure id=\"attachment_21908\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignleft\" style=\"width: 310px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/8-fawn.jpeg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/8-fawn-300x225.jpeg\" alt=\"Fawn dots, no scorching!\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21908\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">3rd try: Fawn dots, no scorching!<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<p>A week later, I tried again. This third time, I followed advice from Rowan and put a piece of aluminum foil over the top when it was nicely browned, so I could keep cooking it a little longer without burning the top. But I also tried tapping\/thumping the bread at the 20-minute mark, and it sounded hollow, so I decided to stop cooking it at that point instead of doing the turn-down-the-heat-and-keep-cooking thing. The loaf came out looking nice (the colander holes left little spots of flour, like a fawn\u2019s markings), and it tasted much like the second attempt: tasty but not as sour as I wanted. And when I got about 2\/3 of the way through eating the loaf, I came to a part where the dough wasn\u2019t entirely cooked near the bottom of the loaf. I made do, turning those last few slices into toast in order to cook them a bit more (and the toast was really tasty), but it wasn\u2019t what I had hoped for. But each try at this oven-baked sourdough thing had nonetheless been mostly better than the last.<\/p>\r\n<p>So another week later, this past Monday, I tried again.<\/p>\r\n<figure id=\"attachment_21914\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignright\" style=\"width: 235px\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/4th-try-sourdough-scaled.jpg\"><img src=\"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/4th-try-sourdough-225x300.jpg\" alt=\"4th try: Excellent.\" width=\"225\" height=\"300\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-21914\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">4th try: Excellent.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\r\n<p>And this time everything went pretty much perfectly.<\/p>\r\n<p>I left the dough in the fridge a little longer than the previous tries (maybe 16 hours?), and during the cooking I put the foil over the top when it got brown, and then at the 20-minute mark I turned down the heat and cooked it for another 10 minutes. (The recipe says 15-20 minutes after turning down the heat, but so far it hasn\u2019t seemed wise to leave it in that long in any of my attempts.)<\/p>\r\n<p>And this latest loaf was pretty much perfect by my standards.<\/p>\r\n<p>Delicious, sour, not burned, squarish, nicely browned, cooked all the way through. So good!<\/p>\r\n<p>I know that getting it right once is no guarantee of getting it right consistently\u2014art vs science, etc. But still, I am very pleased.<\/p>\r\n<p>I think it has helped that it\u2019s only been a week between attempts\u2014if I were only making it (say) once a month, it would be harder to keep track of what I\u2019ve done and what I want to try doing differently.<\/p>\r\n<p>I still haven\u2019t decided whether to keep baking it myself or switch back to storebought. One advantage of baking it myself is that my loaves are a bit taller and a bit squarer than the ones I buy, making the homemade ones more suitable for my sandwiches. Another advantage is that it\u2019s just kinda neat to mix flour and water and yeast and salt and see it transform into delicious bread. And the recipe I\u2019m using doesn\u2019t take all that much work\u2014it takes a day and a half from start to finish, but most of that time is just letting the dough sit there. (Or to put that another way, the yeast and the bacteria are doing all the work.)<\/p>\r\n<p>Either way, it seems very unlikely that I\u2019ll get really into making sourdough the way a lot of people do, making lots of loaves and trying all sorts of fancy variations. My main goal here is to have tasty bread to eat, ideally with as little work on my part as I can get away with.<\/p>\r\n<p>But still, it\u2019s been kinda neat to dip my toes into the vast river of the sourdough experience.<\/p>\r\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[112],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-21897","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-food"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21897","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=21897"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21897\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":21916,"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21897\/revisions\/21916"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=21897"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=21897"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.kith.org\/jed\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=21897"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}